Christchurch 2010 – CongressTV – Episode 12
11 January 2010
1,709 views
19 Comments
(6 votes, average: 3.67 out of 5)
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Subud traditions are based on Islamic traditions ie, separating men and women in worship, womwn wearing skirts/dresses in latihan, homosexuality a grievous sin to be ‘cured’, husbands as direct conduits, wives as receptors etc. In my view, a more inclusive approach to equality and diversity would encourage the spread of Subud in this modern world and retain membership.
Excellent – thanks Hamilton.
More like this one, please.
Actually I agree with the seperation of men and women for latihan – and Bapak’s reasons were practical as well as pragmatic -people might feel self-conscious doing certain actions in front of the opposite sex and it would inhibit the latihan. Latihan is for oneself to be focussed on God and I would not personally want do do latihan with the men.
I think testing sessions over issues or decisions should be done altogether as it is how we integrate outside of latihan that is the real measure of equity. It would at least mean we all test the same questions as so often men and womens groups working seperately seem to approach the issues slightly differently and wording is changed. Save a lot of time if we did it together…
i would like to see the “begin and finish” dissolve, but that is only is some groups…the tradition of giving your time and energy to run a work shop without asking people to pay is a great subud tradition…subud is not limited to islam and and the traditions should be either.
i mean…subud is not limited to islam and the traditions SHOULDNT be either
Hamilto
I like your films. Can you do some featuring people at the congress who are making a difference in the world ? For example members who have been inspired to create SD projects.
Raphael Bate
Very nice venue for me to see the congress, as it unfolds. thanks for all the work you guys are putting into this project.
it seems quite remarkable to me that we have “traditions” and how uniform they are. I think we are still in the phase of discovering what subud is with out Bapak. I think this phase will continue until after there is equilibrium, in our subud culture, long after all the people that have direct memories of Bapak have Passed on. I think that our culture will solidify in the next 40 years or so.. into something that can survive with out a special leader-Figure head.
peace all.
Lucien
One” tradition” I love at any Congress is the entertainment! Please oh please do include videos of the entertainment, fashion show, etc. etc.
Thanks to all videographers for this wonderful website,
A good burning question- I like the tradition of congresses, and even though I am far away, I feel the energy from this one, have dreams that I am there, and think our gatherings give us cohesion and joy. I also love the tradition of entertainment at these gatherings, where the immense creativity of Subud people is celebrated. I don’t wish to do mixed latihans except for important testing where the whole membership is concerned, and I do believe that we will become more inclusive of gay and lesbian members- ultimately. I am sad that there are barriers to the whole sense of belonging that should be any opened person’s right. I like the tradition of teaching ourselves- as individuals and as an organization– our way.
I’ve really enjoyed this video clip along with the comments which I found interesting. Personally I very happy about having latihans segregated. Although I do find it interesting when we have simultaneous latihans in different halls, feeling the strong connection at times between the men and women on a non physical level, which can feel quite positive at times.
There was a mention of stopping the tradition of quoting Bapak, ie saying ‘Bapak said’ in order to manipulate others etc. I would like to see the tradition of over using the word ’should’ changed as this I feel is much more manipulative than quoting anyone. And similarly I would like to see that word be replaced by the word ‘need’ predominantly in our Subud culture. After all in being true to our inner ‘I’ we need to address the needs rather than the ’shoulds’. And in working together the ‘needs’ must take priority over the ’shoulds’ if you get what I mean here. Of course with every rule there is always and exception and being more open helps us to be more adapatable and flexible with ourselves and each other.
so there is only time for one more “BQ” and i will make it a doosy by combining three or four questions, we shall see how it unfolds. it will be up in two days or so. these questions came from ibu’s talks, discussions, and my own receiving. thank you so much for contributing to this forum and help subud continue by remaining true to your own receiving and asking lots of questions….as bapaks said…”dont listen to me, listen to your own inner voice, your own receiving…”
with gratitude
ham
Hi team and readers:
I´m spanish and my english it´s not the best, maybe something has no sense (it hapens to me also in spanish)
Thanks everybody who has work on congresstv. I know (maybe because I´m a big sinner) how difficult it´s to have somenthing welldone on subud where nobody pays us to do it, and where some people only likes to criticise. This is why when I see some work done I realise that theese are the aunthentical “miracles” and you are blessed to do it. So I´m Sorry brothers, I would like to, but I cannot, pay you a holidays at Ibiza where I live, to have rest some days. The only thing I can do for you it´s guess you to come to visit the Island, I promise that I will find for you very good prices to stay here. That´s the only I can do for you, but….with a lot of love…
Thanks to everybody who has work at the whole CONGRESS, people who has new role and people who leaves them. Thanks to people who we see on the interviews, and more specially thanks to people who says things I don´t like at all. That makes Subud more special…a Big gift, so thanks God… for give it to us
Enrique
What needs to change is the moral attitude and dogmatic structures in subud, this is more constrictive to self development then the original intention of Bapak. Self development is what subud is about isnt it? Bapak was a very strict and islamic because that was his nature, but that is not what is best for everybody. I hope I can write my personal history down one day and how subud actually became like a sect for me. Why many people ending up leaving subud which I have done too. It important to realize that we are all one and surrendur means tolerance, acceptance, forgiveness and unconditional love.
Dear dinkiy,
You weren’t born in the last 50 years I hope .
Read Bapak often. His message and guidance is for all caste and creeds. Do you realise his message embraces tolerance,acceptance forgiveness, and unconditional love to quote you.
Except you’ve overlooked the fact that WE have to work on ourselves , to achieve sincerity, submission, and faith.
it’s hard to take a good look at ones self, so when you start, maybe you will have achieved the self development that the latihan brings about eventually.
dear busy bee,
no not the last 50 years, thank you very much for your response. I love bapak greatly and appreciate his talks. Right now, I am talking about what people make Subud out to be. Subud is only what the people make out of it. And right now the organisation is pidgeon holed with dogma and morals. These are belief systems.
I am working on myself and can only do so without Subud. Do you see what I am saying. I can not turn to subud for help because it already signifies a belief system for me. My own feeling shuts down. Let alone the fact that gay people do not feel welcome in a congress, feels just so wrong.
These are group dynamics and they are in my eyes something to be very aware of. To have an active and cautious attitutde towards all belief systems is the latihan.
That is the case for me, not saying it is the same for everyone. Just want to express that sadness of losing something that is still a part of me. But I have faith that Subud will grow just like the world is growing… which it is doing very rapidly.
I just hope that the people in Subud do not wake up one day to realize that the rest of the world has had the latihan for ages and has moved ahead at a very rapid pace, without you…!
peace
dinkiy
all plants flower. all plants go to seed. subud is not the organization, subud is the individual, the people who try to make their way, your way, are missing the point. trust your receiving and nothing else matters, not even the dogma or the words on paper, trust and follow your receiving and everything else will fall into place. subud lives in the individual. our responsibility is only to ourselves and our soul.
thanks, it is hard sometimes to trust my receiving, but that is what I am doing.
if people knew what happened to me maybe they would understand. but as you said only the inner receiving matters.
best wishes
oh and just to clear the inital question. I am under 50 years old. 2nd generation subud.
Dear dinkiy
What ‘happened’ to you?
Leave your response!
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